On English Dubs
The sub vs dub debate is probably one of the most beaten horses in US anime fandom, ever. Things died down with the advent of the DVD, but despite that, the nasty matter of whether one likes watching anime in English or Japanese still sometimes rears its beaten, bloodied and gruesome head.
If you haven’t been living under a rock for the past week (or, conversely, if you have a proper life) you would know that the Lucky Star dub trailer recently hit the intertubes, and it is a most dangerous video indeed. Naturally, it stirred up a storm of hate in various places, making a lot of moe fanbois mad that their pure maidens were raped, and making a lot dub fans angry at said fanbois for being elitist. Now, I don’t mean to fan any flames here, but I figured now would be a perfect opportunity to talk about my stance on the whole LOL ENGLISH DUBS matter, since I don’t believe I’ve done so on this blog before.
But first, a story. Get ready for a shock, guys. Ready? Good.
I used to watch English dubs. All the fucking time. But, I was never a dub fan. Please note this fact, as it is quite important. See, as a pre-teen living in Washington DC in the late ’90s, you didn’t have much options. My internet connection barely existed, so finding out about local clubs was out of the question (I doubt many of them had websites, anyway) and even if I did, it’s not like I could go anywhere on my own. All I had was my circle of elementary school buddies, Blockbuster, and TV.
Like most fans of my generation, I got into Japanese cartoons via what was shown on television. You know, your Pokemon, your Dragon Ball Z, your Gundam Wing, etc. When I watched Pokemon for the first time, I was aware that it was Japanese, but the fact that it was Japanese was neither here nor there. I just thought it was a cool looking cartoon, and what language it was in didn’t matter much to me. On top of that, the only way I could really watch anime was in English, since TV only ever showed the things dubbed, and the only tapes Blockbuster had were the English ones (they were cheaper, after all.) So, the only real exposure I had to Japanese dubs were on the nth generation fansubs of Dragon Ball Z movies my buddies would order off Ebay, or the Samurai X tapes that guy lent me once (Hi, Justin.) While I could dig anime in Japanese, my access to it was quite limited. Thusly, if I limited myself to anime JUST in Japanese, I’d miss out a lot.
Anyway, fast forward several years to the beginning of 2005. It’s a snow day and I’m a teenager, so naturally I’m depressed over nothing. The world was cruel to me for whatever reason I could make up right then, and I had nothing to do but be miserable. My anime collection had grown stale on me, and watching the last episode of Cowboy Bebop for the 51st time didn’t really seem like an awesome idea anymore. So, I pointed my browser to Megatokyo’s anime forum. I remembered that in previous adventures over there, people often spoke of shows I had never heard about, and it only just hit me that they were talking about anime that was airing in Japan! Now, I had BitTorrent installed for a while already, had downloaded a few things– mostly movies, and random episodes of Planetes. A Cowboy Bebop forum brought Samurai Champloo to my attention as well, so I was kind of watching that weekly. But, beyond that, I had no clue what was going on in Japan, so I lurked around for recommendations. After some lurking, I picked out Ah! My Goddess and AIR TV. Two series turned into four, four turned into eight and so on.
This was the turning point. This was when the Japanese performances won me over. Now, it should be noted that during this time, I was still watching anime dubbed on Adult Swim until about senior year in high school. However, since that one day when I started on those two shows, I began switching to the Japanese tracks on my DVDs, and started caring about Adult Swim less and less. As of right now, it’s probably been a good year or so since I’ve watched an entire series dubbed into English.
So, simply put, I prefer anime in Japanese now (SHOCK!). Though, putting the quality of English dubs aside, I don’t necessarily watch anime in Japanese because I think it sounds better. I am an artist (LOL), and anime is art. Sure, some of it is stupid and trashy art, but it’s art all the same. And as an artist (HAHAHAHAHHAHAA) I like viewing art unaltered, and a complete change in audio is a pretty big alteration. I like seeing the show as it was handled by the original staff, that’s all. If by some random chance an English dub happens to be better than the Japanese dub, that’ll mean nothing to me since if the show sucks in Japanese, it just sucks. To me, the English dub is a completely different show.
But, let’s be honest here– most English dub jobs aren’t up to scratch. I’ve seen exactly two professional-sounding dubs in my entire life, and they were GITS:SAC and Cowboy Bebop. See, the thing with English dubs is, generally, they’re produced on low-budgets, and recycle talent (Not to mention that with the advent of moe, it’s getting harder to dub anime and make it not sound awkward. White women in their 30s ain’t cute, I’m sorry.) Thusly, the feeling is similar to that of watching various plays put on by a local, kind of crappy, theatre troupe. Yeah, they get the point across, but they’re nothing compared to say, the stars on Broadway. That’s a lame analogy. Anyway. Dub fans probably get into that, though. They probably feel closer to the English talent due to the lack of a language barrier. And unlike the Japanese guests at cons, the English actors aren’t kept in giant bubbles.
Wow, that went on for longer than expected. Anyway, hope that was enlightening a little. Or something. You guys probably don’t care at all, but it was good to get that all off my chest. Maybe one day I’ll do a proper history of my fandom, if anyone cares…
I forgot they were doing Lucky Star dub… ahaha…
I’ve heard worse, so meh, Don’t really care. Not like its gonna come down here in NZ for a while >.> (I’m still waiting for Madman to License the original Gundam series, come on.)
I agree with a few of your points, and I too evolved into preferring to seeing most anime in it’s Japanese language over the english. GitS and Cowboy Bebop are definitely English highlights and I admit I prefer both shows in english over their Japanese counterparts. Granted I admit a lot of dubs even today are mediocre, it’s still 99% better than dubs that were made 10 to even 20 years ago, most dubs from the early to mid 90s are insanely unbearable, especially ones back in the day when Dub directors tried to karaoke insert songs.
See this wonderful ANN Buried Treasure article all about that: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/buried-treasure/2007-12-27
Lots of people care *cough* about 4 others *cough*
-personally I can understand why some people turn too dubs it nice to not have to see Subs. They are draw your attention and take away from the video aspect and lets face it, it’s nice not to have to read them, listen to the audio, and watch the show(never mind translation notes).
But the fact of the matter is I too like to view the show it was originally intended. The last show i watched through and through Dubed would be Trigun the first time i watched it about 3 years ago. You see here in Canada we Teletoon and YTV for our local cartoon stations we have to pay extra for cartoon network. YTV is only more recently picking up more then the odd anime (still no Trigun) and Teletoon is starting to get anime movies . So for the longest time the anime I came to knew was shows like gundam wing, dragon ball (z), pokemon, and sailor moon. The real turning point for me to heavily get into Subed anime was after i finished Trigun i wanted more “animu” so I stumbled upon a form called Slopeanime(sadly dead now) and was recommended to a show i now see as very superficial called bleach. Even tho i no longer care for such sugar coted candy I am still greatfull to it for starting me on the path to a life of money spent a 2D and plastic women instead of real ones.
Did not mean to rant sorry.
I thought some dub actors usually start in theater acting
Geh. I just went back and read my comment and saw how horribly it was written. All tho I can not wright for shit to start, I was watching kaiji 17 while writing that so i guess I was not Paying much attention.
FORGIVE ME!
I pretty much agree with what you said and followed nearly the same exact road to otakudom as you (except Air wasn’t what I watched at the start hah). Just kinda shows that dubs are necessary to a degree for really popular shows because people just starting out wont want subs. So if they want to add fans they kinda need it, however it’s not like they need it on a show that’s niche. That being said I think the Lucky Star dub is terrible but that’s because I’m a rabid KyoAni fanboi and have watched the TV version like 4 times through.
I just usually find the English dubs annoying because the voices don’t seem to match the characters and… the actual voices are annoying themselves, not necessarily because that it doesn’t compare to the original Japanese audio.
There’s a reference in Lucky Star to how odd it is when the anime voice cast is different to the drama CDs. It would be quite funny if they changed that line in the dub to say how weird it is because the dubbed version sounds so different from the original Japanese.
I usually watch subs. Sometimes I’ll play a game of ‘How long can I watch the dubbed version before it hurts my ears’.
quite often that’s not very long.
This is a subject I have a LOT of experience on. I got into anime just a year or two before it started to really leak into our mainstream culture. I had my go with some subs at a local video store and I was hooked. But subs cost some cash back then. I spent $35 usd to buy a 35 minute episode of Bubble Gum Crisis, Gunbuster was a better deal at 1 hour. The most dubbed anime was out there courtesy of Streamline pictures, and they had the best prices $20 a tape. I admit to liking subs better by then, but dubs were so much cheaper. Then bits of anime started leaking onto TV. I remember when Sailor Moon first came on USA! I watched it because it was free anime! I taped Robot Carnival and Vampire TV off TBS. I bought all of Evangelion dubbed one by one, as they were coming out. I also sent money to fansubbers and got my anime by mail order, though that was not so many. It was really hard to get anime back then and we took what we could get. It is wonderful to get decent subs for just the monthy cost of high speed internet. I only knock dubs that are just horrible. Like escaflowne on FOX or the bubblegum crisis dubs. Those still fill me with loathing. I remember the lean times kids. Just because its dubbed doesn’t mean its horrid. Besides, 4 year old nieces can’t really read subtitles on Totoro.
I briefly read over your story only to realize that we basically have the same exact story. Whoa. But my conversion from dubs to just subs happened 5 years earlier during the time Love Hina was coming out on DVD. lol I was so tired of waiting for the next DVD to come out I just decided to download the fansubs. The rest is history.
Oh, yeah, and you just HAD to put Hazuki at the top there. Makes me want to give Tsukuyomi a second try just because Hazuki is so damn cute. orz
For some reason, once I was conscious that anime was Japanese (past my very early Sailor Moon days, which don’t count), English dubs never sounded right to me. Except for Cowboy Bebop.
I still watch Dubs on occasion, out of curiosity mostly. Personally Dub quality usually doesn’t phase me that much, unless if it a series I’m really fricken into, the Japanese version includes seyiuu I care about (Tomokazu Seki, Aya Hirano, Shuchi Ikeda, etc). When given the choice of Japanese vs English, I’ll usually choose the Japanese version, but my tolerence for dub is higher than most sub fans.
Now the LS dub trailer half pisses me off and half doesn’t. Some of the voices I actually approve, in fact I would have demanded that they use Wendee Lee for Konota since she voiced Haruhi in the Haruhi dub (same goes with Sam Riegal voice Minoru Shirashi), however Tsukasa doesn’t sound childish enough, and Miyuki doesn’t sound smart or moe enough. Kagami’s Dub VA isn’t that bad, but I shudder to think at what they’ll do with Akira or the Anime Tencho. I also shudder at what they’ll probably do with the ending themes, if the treatment of the “God Knows” scene in the Haruhi Dub may be used a precedent.